Cleve Jones ( Photo from Lawrence Ferber ) wants to recruit you. Instrumental in the making of Gus Van Sant's multiple Oscar-winning film, Milk ( and depicted in said film by Emile Hirsch ) , the Indiana-born Jones also founded The NAMES Project and its AIDS Memorial Quilt during the 1980s. This summer sees many public appearances for Jones, including Gay Pride in New York City marking the 40th Anniversary of Stonewall ( alongside Milk's Dustin Lance Black and Anne Kronenberg ) and Vancouver, which he is using to activist ends. Here Jones discusses the upcoming March on Washington and what we can do to finally gain full equality on a federal level—and how we need to act fast.
Windy City Times: Let's discuss the upcoming Equality March on Washington, which is scheduled for Oct. 11.
Cleve Jones: It's definitely happening and the response from around the country has been pretty overwhelming and excited. The website is nationalequalitymarch.com . We're combining the march with a really aggressive campaign to organize people in all 435 congressional districts across the USA to put as much pressure as possible on congress and the president to get us full equality.
WCT: What specific demands are you making?
CJ: We have only one demand: We want equal protection under the law in all matters governed by civil law in all 50 states.
WCT: Why organize a march instead of lobby people in power individually?
CJ: We're doing both. They are not mutually exclusive. If we want to win we have to do everything. That includes marching, writing letters, lobbying, engaging in nonviolent civil disobedience. Every creative nonviolent action we can think of to take, we need to take now.
WCT: As of mid-June, some gay-rights organizations seemed to pooh-pooh a march. Why is that, and do you think they'll change their tune?
CJ: I'm sure they're all going to support it. They are by nature cautious. Part of the problem is when people think of a march on Washington they think of previous marches. Those were enormously complex, expensive affairs that required the expenditure of enormous sums of money. We're not doing that. We're not an organization—we're an ad-hoc grassroots movement. Everything's changed. The Internet provides whole new ways of organizing efficiently and without spending money. I think some groups are just having trouble adjusting to this new reality. And I'm sure they're going to come around, as have many of the bloggers originally opposed to the idea. It's not Lollapalooza, it's not a fundraiser or a circuit party. It's a march and rally [ involving ] very little money. And we're going to use it as a vehicle for building some new structures for grassroots organizing and I would challenge those who don't think it's a good idea to come up with something better and do it."
WCT: What is Obama doing? I fail to understand how this intelligent man can call DOMA [ the Defense of Marriage Act ] a "neutral" policy but then admit he can't institute health benefits to federal employees' partners specifically because of DOMA.
CJ: I'm in no position to understand what's going through the president's mind on this issue but I'm profoundly disappointed and am determined to do everything I can to help our community take advantage of this unique moment in history. People need to wake up. A door has opened to us and if we push really hard we can win full, real equality. Not just marriage equality or visitation rights. Actual equality. But that door is already swinging shut. We have to move swiftly.
One other thing I want to put out there to your readers is they should go online and read the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. They should read the clause that refers to equal protection under the law. Every claim we make for equality is based on the 14th Amendment. It was passed on July 9th, 141 years ago, so if people want to move quickly and not wait for the march I would suggest they download and print a copy of the 14th Amendment and walk into their member of Congress' district office on July 9th with it and ask their representative or staff to support this. This is in the Constitution and guarantees me and my family full equality. Do you support it or not?
WCT: Has Milk and its visibility given you a boost as far as being able to make demands and do things effectively as an activist?
CJ: Of course. Very helpful. More than what it's done for me is what it's done to inform young people about the history of our movement. They're inspired and a lot of us older people are reminded what we did in the past and is now possible.
WCT: What has been the most surreal moment involving the Hollywood aspect of Milk?
CJ: Probably the most surreal moment was when I found myself at a party seated in between Perez Hilton and Mick Jagger.
WCT: Are you feeling hate or love towards Perez now?
CJ: I'm not going to touch that.
WCT: What's going on with the AIDS Quilt?
CJ: That's another issue entirely. I haven't been involved in the NAMES Project for years and I would like to see the quilt used more aggressively as a prevention education tool and I'm frustrated by the lack of initiative from the people who control the quilt today.
WCT: What else should be on our activism checklist right now?
CJ: We should be working very hard to strengthen the coalition between the LGBT movement and the labor movement. I work for a labor union called Unite Here—www.unitehere.org—we represent hotel workers, absolutely committed to equality for LGBT people. We're leading the fight to boycott the Manchester Grand Hyatt Hotel in San Diego, which gave a large amount of money to put Prop 8 on the ballot. Check out sleepwiththerightpeople.org and stay in touch with NationalEqualityMarch.com . And read up on the 14th Amendment and go into congressional offices on July 9 and understand how the Constitution should already be protecting our rights.
WCT: And any last thoughts for the young queers?
CJ: I remember this from when I was 17—a lot of gay kids are really frightened of getting old. It's one of the big lies they tell us over and over about why you don't want to be queer, because your life is going to be boring and pathetic. I remember when I was young looking at the older queens with their potbellies and sagging faces and wrinkles thinking, well, that can't be that much fun. And I want to say I'm going to be 55 soon, I'm getting old and got a pot belly and sagging, wrinkled face but this has been the best two years of my life. I've never had so much fun.
WCT: Fortunately, now we have daddy and bear-chaser Web sites.
CJ: Thank God. [ Laughs ] Yeah—life is good, and I want everybody to fight really hard right now because I think we're going to win.
