Wickedly smart, fearless, funny, raw—these are all the words that describe Sandra Bernhard. And now, after her incredibly successful three-week run in Washington, D.C., Sandra travels to L.A. with her 20th-anniversary performance of 'Without You I'm Nothing.' However, before that, she passes through Chicago to celebrate Halloween at Steppenwolf Theatre.
Amy Matheny: Twentieth anniversary! I almost fell out of my chair.
SB: You and me both.
AM: How has it been 20 years since you did 'Without You I'm Nothing?'
SB: I have no idea. It's been 10 years since I had my baby, so these 10 years increments are just like startling and mind-boggling. But you know people like us jam a whole lot of livin' into every 10 years. Certainly it's what I've done. My experiences the past 20 years are probably what a lot of people live in a lifetime, and it's just nonstop, go go go, creative, new shows, interesting friendships and relationships. Of course, having a child [ is ] a whole other level of excitement and challenge that I never really thought I would have, but I am so glad I'm having.
AM: Twenty years ago I had my first car and your cassette, Without You I'm Nothing. I listened to it with my boyfriend, who's now gay, too. It's a whole lifetime ago.
SB: I love it!
AM: What is it like revisiting that material again?
SB: I'm not doing every single piece. When I was in Washington, by the time I got through the new opening number I created and all the political stuff, I was already almost a half-hour into the show. So it didn't leave me much time to do all the material. I have probably four major pieces from the original show and a lot of new stuff. When I did the film version, there was even other material only in the film so there's just a plethora of material. I do 'Me and Mrs. Jones' and a couple of other key pieces. So, honestly, I can't say that it's exactly the way it was. I don't think I could do it night after night. I do what still feel applicable to my life and to the times we're living in.
AM: It's the redux version.
SB: Exactly. [ Laughter ]
AM: Back then, some of the themes you chose to comment on are still the same. And now, some of them are mainstream. You were the first hacking away at the fashion world; now with reality shows fashion is far more mainstream.
SB: I have a whole piece about that in the show. So, it's funny that you say that.
AM: I promise I haven't seen this show yet. But I have seen most of your shows.
SB: Smart people are always on the same wavelength. This is not the show that I am doing in Chicago. That show is kind of a Halloween funfest. I'll be there with my band, The Rebellious Jezebels, singing. But I'm sure I'll come back to Chicago next year with Without you I'm Nothing.
AM: What was it like being on Project Runway?
SB: Well, I do a whole thing about that as well, so …
AM: So you don't wanna tell us, right?
SB: Nooo, I won't tell you a funny story about it because it will give it away, but I can say that I had never watched the show.
AM: Really?
SB: It's just not one of the shows that I sit and watch. So when I went there I was totally like an open book. I didn't have any expectations and, because of it, I think it made it a lot more interesting.
AM: Is Heidi Klum truly that stunning? She looks even better this year.
SB: She has the kind of body that, with a little bit of dieting and a lot of exercise … she has one of those natural android bodies and she just looks good. She doesn't appeal to me, frankly, but I understand why people think she's a stunning presence, because she is. She looks like a Barbie doll come to life.
AM: Is Halloween one of your favorite holidays?
SB: Actually, it isn't. Even when I was a kid I never really got into Halloween. But my daughter is very into it. I'm rushing back home because on Halloween evening she has her first school dance—a fifth-grade school dance. She's all excited about it.
AM: What is she going as?
SB: She's going as a Pan Am Stewardess. Her babysitter is also a fabulous seamstress and she's gonna make her a little outfit: a skirt, nipped at the waist jacket, and little pillbox hat. It's gonna really be something to write home about.
AM: Yeah! Tell her to say 'Pan Am' like 'Trans Am.' That would make me very happy. [ Bernhard laughs. ]
SB: You sound a little too much like Sarah Palin.
AM: What is scarier—the economic situation or the McCain/Palin ticket?
SB: Ultimately they're kind of hand in hand. God forbid they get anywhere near the White House [ or ] the economy is never gonna recover. We're gonna go into several hot zones in the world and start wars and stir stuff up, and that is gonna be very detrimental. Not to mention all women's rights being taken away. I hope all the women that are out there lounging around not worrying about it now … . but when, God forbid, the finger's on the trigger, I hope everybody remembers that they better get out and vote! And vote for Obama/Biden—two men who have more respect for women in their little fingers than Sarah Palin has in her entire weird, creepy mind.
AM: Did you watch her debate?
SB: I did. She's on autopilot. As long as she has speaking points on note cards in front of her and she's not forced to stay on the topic at hand, she's fine. But I don't need to be lectured to about non-issues and gobbledygook and crap. I'm a little surprised at how they railroaded Gwen Ifill, and I was a little disappointed and, frankly, shocked that she didn't slam her fist down and go 'Keep to the point, bitch.'
AM: It's frightening when you get the cluck of the cheek and the wink of the eye. I feel like she's running for block party president.
SB: Well, she's just perfect for the times. Look what's on T.V. She's perfectly suited for a reality show, along with her family. This is what we've been weaned on so it's not that surprising. We better up the ante intellectually in this country or we're gonna be a brain drain in the next 10 years.
AM: My grandmother is turning 100 on Halloween.
SB: Awesome!
AM: I see your show and fly out of town to celebrate. She told me six months ago that we were not having a recession but we were having a depression.
SB: Because she knows.
AM: Though she said we don't have the same people that pulled America out of the Great Depression.
SB: Of course not, because they would snicker at Roosevelt, and go, 'Oh, he's an intellectual East Coast snob.' Give me a break. These people are totally cynical. They have no compassion, and they certainly don't have any understanding of the working class in this country. But onstage I manage to detach from the reality long enough to spin it into something ironic and fun. That's what I get to do and that's a nice escape for me and the audience.
AM: Your show, Hero Worship, was right after 9/11. You provided a forum of coming together, laughing and mourning at the same time. Was that your goal?
SB: Absolutely. The last part of Without You I'm Nothing, the new version, is a tribute to people who have that emotional depth and still have the optimism and still want things to be intimate, artistic and beautiful. The thing I marvel at the most about the past eight years is how little beauty has ever been highlighted. You never hear anybody talk about music, art, literature or theater; there's no reference to it from our government. It's just this nasty, vindictive point of view that has permeated the whole planet. People want to be lifted out of that. We wanna go back to having some good times, and good times doesn't mean spending a lot of money, good times means hanging out with people and doing things that are uplifting intellectually and spiritually, having a good laugh, a good meal and doing something that's more intelligent than all this.
AM: Along with all of the intelligent banter, you always love to poke fun at the more banal … pop-culture icons of the time. What are you obsessed with today?
SB: I love to watch [ lesbian TV and radio talk-show host ] Rachel Maddow and get my mind filled with all this information and then watch [ fashion stylist ] Rachel Zoe and have it sucked out. I still keep my finger on the pulse as much as I can bear. Rachel Maddow is now my official hero. She's so right for the times. I love it when she and Pat Buchanan have a dialogue because I think they actually like each other.
AM: I do, too.
SB: She's so cute with him and he's oddly cute with her. Do I like Pat Buchanan? No. But in that circumstance it is pretty entertaining.
AM: [ It's ] the liberal lesbian sitting next to the archconservative Christian, and they seem like father and daughter. She's not gonna change him [ and ] he's not gonna change her, but they live and let live and talk.
SB: Exactly. Sometimes he actually does agree, though; I've seen him be more open. I don't think he likes John McCain, so I don't think it's like a big stretch for him to have to fake it. All these old farts think Palin's hot. This is their sick little trip.
AM: Instead of a MILF, she's a PILF: 'Politician I'd like to Fuck.'
SB: That's brilliant!
AM: Take it, it's yours. Use it onstage at Steppenwolf.
SB: Well, she ain't one I'd want to.
AM: What else is on your plate?
SB: I've written yet another scripted TV show with a fabulous actress/writer: Angelica Torn, whose father is Rip Torn. Rip's playing my father, and a couple of producers are both very interested. We'll pitch it to all the various cable outlets. So hold a good thought.
I just shot an independent film. It's a youthful cast; not that I'm not youthful, but I play this young kids' therapist. Hopefully, it will be at Sundance. I'm just working on television and film stuff trying to get back in the game. It's been tough. The strike shut everything down, so it's really been a bitch.
AM: Are you thinking about writing another book?
SB: I don't think people buy books that much anymore. There's so much blogging, [ and ] to sit and discipline myself with a book [ is ] not like my favorite thing to do. I have material for another book but, honestly, I don't have it in me right now.
AM: Be a quarterly co-host with me on the podcast. Then you can just talk about whatever the hell happened to you the night before.
SB: Well, certainly we could do it once in a while. I don't know why not.
AM: I call, hit 'record' and we talk about whatever is goin' on.
SB: That might be a nice outlet for me, so you know what? We'll connect.
AM: Groovy! I love it!
SB: Wish your grandmother a happy birthday and we'll do some more talking, okay?
AM: That would rock.
Don't miss A Very Sandra Bernhard Halloween Oct. 27 at Steppenwolf Theatre, 1650 N. Halsted, at 7 p.m. and 9:30 p.m. For tickets, visit Steppenwolf.org or call 312-335-1650. Also, listen to the whole interview at www.windycityqueercast.com ( and maybe soon Sandra will be co-hosting ) .
