John Waters is not a fan of most of Cecil B. DeMille's movie. Therefore, it may be just a coincidence that Waters's latest film, opening this week, is called Cecil B. Demented, and it is being released around the same time as the fiftieth anniversary re-release of Sunset Boulevard in which director Cecil B. DeMille is prominently featured, but the parallels are there. "He was a foot fetishist," Waters said during a recent interview. "I like that. I've already done that in a movie, so I couldn't put that in. But he made epics and supposedly I used to make 'trash epics.' We used to say that in the beginning. It was an easy thing to parody, certainly."
Gregg Shapiro: Was the character of Honey Whitlock written with Melanie Griffith in mind?
John Waters: No, because I never knew that Melanie was going to play the role. This movie was developed for a French company even before I wrote Pecker. At the time Melanie wasn't even available; she was doing other stuff. There was a whole other actress that we were trying to get that, budget-wise, it didn't happen. Then when it started happening again, I had just seen Melanie in Another Day In Paradise, which I figured, "Well, she's certainly taking some chances here." I had met Melanie, and I knew her a little bit, and I knew that she had a sense of humor and a checkered past—that she was the first to talk about—and I always love a woman with a checkered past.
GS: I'm really glad that you brought up her sense of humor because Ms. Griffith appears to have more of a sense of humor than one might expect. Would you agree?
JW: She'd have to have one to do this movie or else she'd be pissed off.
GS: Were you surprised by it?
JW: No. The few times I've been with her she's had a sense of humor about the whole thing. She never was a normal person. Tippi Hedren is her mother, she had her first tiger when she was 13, all of her husbands have been movie stars. She's never, for once, had a normal day in her whole life. I like people like that. To me, that's an outsider. Movie stars are outsiders. They're aliens. Ones that have grown up in the business especially, with movie star parents and that kind of thing, have never had a normal day in their lives. It's a whole other kind of thing that they have to overcome in a way.
GS: Speaking of having a sense of humor, Patricia Hearst has appeared in four of your movies. How did you originally get idea to cast her in Cry-Baby in 1990?
JW: I was obsessed with Patty Hearst my whole life. I went to her trial—she didn't know me. I was a Patty Heart fan. She later told me, "People like you is why I went to prison. You wanted me to be some left-wing heroine that I never was." She's right. I met her when she was in Cannes for the Patty Hearst movie by Paul Schrader. A friend of mine that was invited to the dinner knew that I was obsessed with her, so he took me as his date, and they put me next to her. Plotted to put me next to her. I had just seen the movie, which had very much radically changed my opinion about her. I was wrong. Whatever she did was correct. She's alive.
They thought she was in that house and they burned it up. They told her that the police would kill her and they were right, they would have. Whatever she did, she made the right decision and she shouldn't have had to go to jail for it. I met her at Cannes. Her kids liked Hairspray. That was the thing. We got along immediately. She had a sense of humor. I think she's a gifted comedian. She came in and read for me the first time. I didn't just give her the part without her reading ( for it ) . With this movie, it was pushing it, I agree. But, since she had a history with me, to not put her in the movie would have made it seem like she was guilty of something.
GS: Why is she missing?
JW: Why is she missing in this movie? Especially this one. I really think that Patricia Hearst is really sick of the whole thing. I mean these stupid left-wing lawyers are dragging her back for some other case and attacking her. Basically, she hates the S.L.A. for interrupting her life and kidnapping her. Who wants to be known as a victim? But she hates the police, too. They put her in jail. Why is she supposed to be such a great witness and help them now. You didn't want her help then. So, she can't win. She makes a movie, and it's "fuck you" to all of it, isn't it?
GS: In Cecil B. Demented, you worked again with Ricki Lake. Do you have a sense of pride in regards to Ms. Lake's success since she made her debut in your movie Hairspray?
JW: I was really thrilled to have her back. Ricki always told me that she wanted to be a TV star, even when she made movies. No one says that. They all say they want to be movie stars. Ricki's doing The Vagina Monologues in New York right now. Ricki has remained a very, very close friend, even if I wasn't making movies. I was thrilled to have her back on the set. It seemed like she should always be on my set. I don't want her to give up acting. I understand that the show is incredibly successful. It's gone farther than anybody ever imagined. It's all over the world now, too. Good for her!
GS: Do you have any plans to do any television work?
JW: There is something in the works right now, but I don't want to talk about it yet. There is something coming up that might happen, we'll see.
GS: Cecil B. Demented pokes fun at the popularity of Baltimore as a film and television location. I know that in Chicago, which is also a popular location, people dread seeing the "movie location" signs because it means that the already terrible parking situation is made that much worse. How do you feel about Baltimore's popularity?
JW: It is a nuisance, and it is that way to most people in Baltimore. I call it "cinematic immunity," and we have that when you are making a movie. And the film commission that I poke fun of in the movie has been a great help to me. They're in the movie. The real film commissioner is sitting right behind an actor playing one. They're great! They tell people to move their cars, and they do. It still amazes me. They're on my side and they do a really good job. And I'm happy that they make all this stuff in Baltimore because all the people that work with me behind the scenes work all the time. I think they're doing good stuff there.
GS: Have you ever done any location shooting near ( the gay bar ) the Drinkery?
JW: That's where Divine ate dog shit. On the corner of Tyson Street and Read Street. The Drinkery is on the corner of Read and Cathedral. It's half a block from where Divine ate dog shit. I haven't been in the Drinkery in about 25 years.
GS: You have successfully incorporated gay characters into many of your films. How important is it to you to have gay characters or subplot in your movies?
JW: I have to have a twist on it. It can't just be gay anymore. Gay's not enough. It never has been to me. Basically, in Cecil B. Demented, we have someone ( Rodney, played by Jack Noseworthy ) who wants to be gay so badly that they want to commit suicide, which is a comment on the old movies where if you were gay you had to commit suicide. I always have to twist it a little. Actually, three of the "Sprocket Holes" ( the movie's kidnappers ) and a fourth one wants to be, out of six or seven. It's important to me to have it in it if I can subvert it. I'm against all separatism. If gay liberation truly happens there won't even have to be gay newspapers. It would be like having Black newspapers. Eventually, there won't be any. I love the new gay people that hang around with straight people too. I like it mixed. I don't especially like all-gay bars. I feel closer to the culture of a punk rock club. I don't have any rainbow flags. I'm not against people that do. I'm all for it. I don't want to get married, but if straight people can have eight bad marriages, I don't know why gay people can't have one good one. It's bullshit to me. I don't want to go in the army. However, if gay people want to, good. Who cares? Tax laws should be equal. I'm for all those thing. I don't necessarily want them for myself, but gay people should certainly be able to. I liked it when gay people weren't like everybody else. I don't think I'm like everybody else. I'm insulted if people think I am.
GS: I was wondering if you have plans to make a movie in any other city?
JW: I've shot scenes in other cities. But, it seems to me that I have such a great crew there, all the people that work behind the scenes. Baltimore is such a character in my movies now. Why would I? I could. But I don't think anyone's clamoring for me to do that.
GS: Is there a city that seems particularly appealing to you?
JW: I could live in Chicago. I think it's a great city because it's cold all the time and I hate hot weather. And boys are really cute here. Some of the cutest boys always live in Chicago and they don't want to go to New York or L.A. I like that. You don't have to anymore. No one wants to. New York has less edge than anywhere now. Baltimore has more edge. They don't even have frontal nudity in New York. That's what I want to ask Hillary ( Clinton ) , if she wins, "Please bring back frontal nudity." I don't think she will either. I like her, but she ain't bringing back the Mineshaft.
GS: Have you begun working on your next film project?
JW: Yeah, but I'll just give you my stock answer because I think it's bad luck ( to say too much ) . It's about sex addicts in a blue-collar neighborhood and how they deal with their version of happiness. But it's a comedy, and so far it's called A Dirty Shame, which is a very Baltimore thing that a lot of people's mothers say. "That's a dirty shame." I like the expression.
GS: Make sure that you have that Evelyn "Champagne" King song in there.
JW: What's that?
GS: "Shame." And the chorus is, "It's a lowdown dirty shame."
JW: ( laughs ) Okay, I'll have to remember that.
GS: You are also known as an author, having written four books, do you have plans for a new book?
JW: No, but I write the movies. I've written 15 movies, too.
GS: Have you compiled the screenplays into book form?
JW: There was one book that had three, and the next version will have three more. That's in the middle of being decided, too. Eventually they'll all come out, like three at a time. I do have another book that is Shock Value, Part Two, from then on, because the first one only went up to Polyester. I'm going to keep making the movies while they let me. I've got time to write that book. I don't feel like retiring.
