THE VOICE OF CHICAGO'S GAY, LESBIAN, BI, TRANS AND QUEER COMMUNITY SINCE 1985

WCT: This is such a critical race for the gay community and nationally for the makeup of the House. Given the vote that was taken in the House on increased presidential war powers, what would you have done had you been there, and do you think you could have had an impact?

HP: I would have voted against it. And if I had been in the House I would have spoken out very strongly against this blank check to the President. And he has given every indication that he intends to draw upon the blank check as freely as he can. We have the National Strategy Review that came out in the middle of this talk about Iraq that makes it clear that the Bush administration wants to act unilaterally to achieve, in the phrase of the National Strategy Review, "world domination." And I think it was a serious mistake for the Congress to give him this authority. We have the story in the papers that they have fairly detailed plans to set up a military government in Iraq, just a U.S. military government. And I think that is a very big difference between Mark Kirk and me, with respect to the desirability of this kind of strategy and with respect to whether he has the courage to be a voice of dissent with his party, which he clearly does not.

WCT: Do you have a sense as to what the 10th District wants on this issue?

HP: Since my opinion piece ran in The Washington Post saying we ought not to rush into war, I haven't met anybody in the 10th District who wants to rush into war.

WCT: Do think Kirk is locked up with Bush and not independent?

HP: Yes.

WCT: Do you feel like if you were in there you would be able to be independent of the Democratic leadership? Some of the Democratic leaders went for this as well.

HP: Well, my Op-Ed piece in the Washington Post criticized the Democratic leadership for not coming out more strongly against the war and I think that expression is fairly powerful evidence that I am willing to be independent.

WCT: How would your international experience in Bosnia and other places be able to translate to your role as a House member? There were House members who went to Iraq and were really criticized nationally for doing an end-run around the President. But yet, leaders like that can be informed by what's happening around the world. Do you think your international experience would translate to dealing with places in the Middle East?

HP: Well, I think that anyone that has on-the-ground experience with nation-building has an appreciation of the pitfalls that can exist, but also the possibilities that exist.

I've seen for myself, when the United States comes in on the right side and is a force for democracy and opportunity, how pro-American the indigenous populations can be.

WCT: What do you think is the right strategy for now with what's happening with Israel [ Perritt visited Israel earlier this year ] with what's happening with Iraq? What's your personal opinion on what needs to happen?

HP: Well, I think that the Israel and Palestine situation is quite different than what is happening in Iraq. Iraq is probably easier to talk about. I think that first of all there is no evidence whatsoever of any imminent threat posed by Iraq against U.S. interests. Saddam Hussein is a bad guy and he has a bad history. But the evidence supports the effectiveness of containment and deterrence. It is reasonable to continue to be concerned about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and I think the right thing to do about that is to get the UN inspectors back, and if they encounter concrete obstacles, than to deal with those obstacles. It may be that some sort of military force would be necessary to overcome some obstacle, but it should be very narrowly focused on concrete obstacles to the re-introduction of the inspectors and to disarmament.

WCT: Does your take, based on your international experience, make for a more complicated analysis than what most people seem to be saying--that it's an oil-based war again. That if Bush was so opposed to nation building--he spoke out against it when he was first running--and now nation-building is one of his first big agendas ... it is because of oil and his campaign people, or is there a more complicated analysis out there?

HP: There is a more frightening analysis out there. And it is that there are some fringe ideologues that have captured the foreign policy of the United States, chief among is the Deputy Secretary of Defense. He has been preaching unilateral dominance by the United States for 20 years. And even before Sept. 11 he was advocating a course rather like that is expressed in the National Strategy Review, and I think that he has unfortunately captured the ear and the mind of the President. It's ideologically based foreign policy that throws into the trash bin the structure and the policies that won the Cold War, that the United States was the principle architect of, and it is very dangerous to our long-term security. And I think it has enormous short-run costs. I think if we attack Iraq, it will stimulate an attack on Israel. It will cost a fortune that will make it even more difficult for us to meet urgent domestic policy priorities like healthcare and protecting social security. I think that very many young men and women will be sent to die, and many thousands of Iraqi adults and children will die. And I emphasize that what is lacking here is a concrete threat to U.S. interests. The focus is on the personality of Hussein, which is a breathtaking departure from any kind of American policy that has gone before.

WCT: Bush very causally said, "They tried to kill my daddy."

HP: Right.

WCT: The perception of it is 'revenge,' but the media is glossing over this.

HP: It's scary. It's absolutely scary.

WCT: Obviously, a lot of places have nuclear weapons and we are not going into those countries?

HP: That's the other danger of this: that if we go after him to depose him, then every other bad guy who is in charge of a country is going to say ... 'Hmmm I may be next.' That will create an incentive for the other bad guys--they are mostly guys and not gals--to get nuclear weapons and biochemical weapons and attach themselves to terror networks to protect themselves. And that is exactly the opposite of what we need to achieve.

WCT: Let's talk about the 10th District and, since we first talked many months ago, what's been happening with your campaign up there and what's been the progress?

HP Well, I think we have just made super, super progress. We've gotten 400,000 voter contacts through direct mail that are underway as we speak. I have shaken somewhere between 8,000 and 9,000 hands through mid-June at train stations and knocking on people's doors. And the response is just terrific. The African American community is flocking to my side of the equation.

WCT: How significant is the percentage up there?

HP: In terms of political participation it is the most significant ethnic group--about 9 percent by population in terms of expected voter turnout. I took the position on Iraq because I thought it was the right position. We didn't make any political investigation before that. But the political response to that has just been terrific. When people stop by the headquarters and they call me up ... somebody stopped by the house this morning to tell me how excited they are that I am willing to take a position.

WCT: Talk about the geographic area that it's covering, with 9 percent African American. The last time the Democrat was not successful. Are there differences in the make up of that region now that means the Democrat has a better chance?

HP: Well the district runs along the Lake Shore from Wilmette on the South to Waukegan on the North. And it runs triangle in shape so as you come south it gets wider so it's got Libertyville, Vernon Hills, Glenview, Northbrook, Northfield, Buffalo Grove, Wheeling, Arlington Heights and parts of Palatine township. It is very much a swing district, very high education levels. And what happened was that Lauren Beth Gash, the Democratic nominee last time, first of all she lost very narrowly, and she had advice that was thrust on her that she shouldn't spend much time in heavily Democratic areas like Waukegan and so she didn't. And she under-performed other Democrats there. While I spent a lot of time there.

WCT: What are the gay and pro-choice organizations doing to help in getting out the vote?

HP: The Stonewall Dems have just been terrific. What has happened is some of the Washington-based groups have been driven by their pro-incumbency inclination to support the other guy or stay out of it.

WCT: HRC?

HP: HRC was driven by that, or perhaps by other things, but they say it's their pro-incumbency position. The Sierra Club likewise.

WCT: Was the Victory Fund involved at all?

HP: Well the Victory Fund did not want to bet on me because I wasn't a sure thing, as remarkable as that may be. But the organizations and the people in the 10th District are very supportive. The environmental groups in the district, I have worked with them very closely and helped them in some cases get the resources they needed to investigate problems, in other cases to increase the visibility of problems.

WCT: And I know that Equality Illinois has been strongly supportive, even though it is not on their specific agenda, but individuals within that have backed you.

HP: Yes.

WCT: You said Stonewall Dems.

HP: Right.

WCT: Is Personal PAC involved at all?

HP: Well, they only do state stuff so they can't do federal races.

WCT: So the 400,000 database, where did that come from?

HP: Well the basic database is the voter file, and then we have a targeted direct-mail campaign. We are probably going to do 200,000 autocalls. Gen. Wesley Clark is going to do some autocalls on my Iraq position.

WCT: Now, that brings up the whole issue of the Democratic Congress. Let's talk about that. Is your race seen as one of the handful of races that could shape the Congress differently?

HP: Sure. We got a half dozen seats that we could pick up and this is certainly one that we can pick up. The Democratic national campaign has not targeted it, which causes less national money to flow, because they concluded early on that it was a long shot.

WCT: But you have people like Sen. Joseph Lieberman and Rep. Barney Frank?

HP: Exactly.

WCT: Are there other ones that will be coming to town or doing other things?

HP: Well, I think Lieberman and Gen. Clark are the ones that will do the autocalls and Barney Frank of course has been to town a couple of times. The Democratic Party has been very helpful in terms of technical support, technical assistance.

WCT: What about the women's vote up there, since it was so targeted last time?

HP: Well, our polling tells us that there are, as often is the case, some differences between men and women on the issues that concern them. I would expect that the war resonates more strongly with women than with men, but I don't know that because we did our polling before the war was such a hot issue. I think healthcare, that is a concern to everybody.

WCT: Are there significant differences between you and Kirk on the choice issue, on the healthcare issue?

HP: Well, on choice. He says he is pro-choice but then he votes to restrict therapeutic stem-cell research. And he says in a floor speech that Henry Hyde is his hero. That is not a very reliable pro-choice advocate. And there are huge differences on healthcare. I mean I want to do something. All he wants to do is keep the pharmaceutical companies happy. He has taken $73,000 in contributions from pharmaceutical companies and when the Republicans decided they needed something that they could claim as a prescription drug benefit, Kirk took the pharmaceutical companies' draft and shepherded it through the House. And that's a bill that doesn't have any mandate for geographic coverage, doesn't mandate anything with respect to people to be covered, so an insurance company could exclude all seniors and all sick people, and it doesn't mandate anything about specific drugs to be covered. So the only thing that that bill has to do with pharmaceutical drugs is its title.

WCT: What are the other types of support that are different from your campaign?

HP: Well, he's got a very strong corporate support, almost nothing in terms of labor. I have very strong labor support. I have progressive foreign policy organizations behind me and he doesn't.

WCT: Does the coverage of your campaign in the district emphasize much about your sexuality or your background in civil-rights issues?

HP: Well, I think just about every story in the nature of a profile about me has mentioned that I am gay.

WCT: Let's talk about Kirk and the issue of you being not only a gay man but a gay man who would rate very highly on the actual gay bills. Mark Kirk has a mixed record. How do you confront that? He's not Jesse Helms, but he's also not 100 percent against gay rights.

HP: Well, I think the root problem is that he votes with Jesse Helms. Jesse Helms is in the other body, but figuratively speaking he votes with Jesse Helms. There is absolutely nothing that he's done since he's been in Congress that has shown any willingness to rock the boat. And so the idea that he somehow is going to be the independent voice within the Republican party, which begs the question whether that would do any good, he isn't going to be that voice. What he's trying to do by every evidence of his behavior is to make sure that he is a nice little lapdog for the right-wing leadership of the Republican Party, to build his political career.

Then, when he comes back to the district, he talks a moderate line. But there is such a gap between the rhetoric and the reality that I don't begin to think there is any reason to think he can be trusted. And his rating based on his rhetoric and the few votes he has taken, where they didn't need his vote so they could turn him loose, is great. It's like a C- or a D. I am clear where I stand on those issues. I have a very strong record in everything I have done professionally in my career of being willing to take some risks and be a change agent and get out in front. And this is part of my own life so I can ... I internalize the importance of these issues for people in our community, that leads to a level of commitment and a passion about these issues.

WCT: How do you feel about Larry McKeon being an openly gay state representative, people who are symbols, not just elected officials?

HP: Well, I am delighted to be a symbol because I think they are great symbols and I think that I am a well-qualified person, who is pursuing an agenda that is of interest to the larger community and also is gay. I think that does something to make life safer for all gay people, because it is one more contribution to moving toward a time when people don't have to be afraid to be open.

WCT: Have you gotten much support from the Illinois Democratic Party, or is this something they are not focusing on right now?

HP: Well, I have gotten huge amounts of support from the County and township organizations. The Illinois Democratic Party is mainly focused on statewide races.

WCT: Are there other issues, such as AIDS funding, between Kirk and yourself? I think the majority of active voting gay people will look at the HRC and say, well Kirk's not the devil, but they might go with him because the HRC says go with him. What is your passion about working on gay issues, or would they just be one of many issues you work on?

HP: Well, I think the problem with Mark Kirk is that he's a fraud. He talks a good line but he votes a bad line, and therefore you can't trust him.

WCT: Has he debated you?

HP: No. He's hiding. Well, we have three debates scheduled. He wrote me a letter saying he wasn't going to agree to more than three. We had some word yesterday that he is going to back out on one of those. Two on the 27th. We had some cute little instances ... there was one where he was scheduled to be on a radio program and they invited me to be on also, so Mark backed out five minutes before the program started. So he's hiding from his voting record and hiding from the voters, as he should. If that was my voting record, I would hide from it, too.

Mark Kirk has not returned the Windy City Times' questionnaire, nor has he agreed to an interview.

Perritt has a record in the areas of security, technology, law and education. He has launched major initiatives to build democratic institutions in Southeast Europe, the Ukraine, Poland, China, and Mexico, throughout his career. In these countries, Perritt has worked to build peace, the rule-of-law, and flourishing market economies, "recognizing that a stable, democratic world means a more secure and prosperous America," he said. Currently, he is on leave as Dean of Chicago-Kent College of Law and the Vice President of the Illinois Institute of Technology. He has led efforts to explore the impact of information technology on law, public policy, and education. As a practicing attorney for many years, Perritt is a member of the bar in several states. He received a B.S. from MIT and an M.S. from MIT's Sloan School of Management. He received his law degree from Georgetown University Law Center.