While she was a state legislator, Judy Baar Topinka had a mixed record on progressive issues. She voted in favor of bad HIV policies, voted for Pate Philip as the Republican Party's Senate majority Leader, and she voted against some abortion access.
But since becoming state Treasurer, Topinka has opened up her mind and her heart to gay causes, and she has become one of the more moderate Republicans on a variety of issues. She still rated 73% on the AIDS Foundation of Chicago's 2002 questionnaire, and refused to return Personal PAC's pro-choice form. She did, however, receive strong backing from Equality Illinois, and many gays and lesbians work for her office, her campaign, and are supporting her election.
In fact, of all of the statewide Republican candidates, Topinka appears to be the only one with significant backing from the GLBT community. In part that is because she has attended many gay functions, and recently her office helped secure a low-interest loan for the gay Center on Halsted.
Her Democratic challenger, state Rep. Tom Dart, meanwhile, also has strong backing from gay activists, particularly among partisan Democrats. Dart is also being strongly backed by Personal PAC for his record on choice issues, and he received a near-perfect rating from the AIDS Foundation of Chicago. His record as state representative shows a Southwest Side Chicago politician can get re-elected with a progressive voting record, and he has been a key ally for the state gay bill. As head of the House Judiciary Committee, he has only once exercised the clout many legislators take for granted: stopping a bill from coming up for a vote. That bill? One that would ban gays from adopting and becoming foster parents.
So of all the statewide races, this one is perhaps the most vexing for GLBTs. A candidate who reaches out strongly to the community but who, in the 1980s, had some extremist votes on AIDS issues, and one who as a representatives in the 1990s has a near-perfect record on the issues.
Following are interviews with each of the candidates, who sat down with Windy City Times to discuss their records and the office of state Treasurer.
Judy Baar Topinka
WCT: You've been very active with the Center on Halsted.
Judy Baar Topinka: We have Corey Jobe as liaison to the gay community. So we have a very active liaison. We work a lot with Art Johnson and Rick Garcia, who I think are just wonderful people. There is a need for that kind of a Center so that you have one roof and all these services are easily attainable right in the neighborhood. It's a place people will use and will be a good collection point for just about everything you could want to do. [ It ] proves that if everybody works together and you don't get all hung up on partisanship and boundaries in terms of city and state, you can accomplish things like this.
WCT: How does the financing work? How does the treasurer's office play a role?
Judy Baar Topinka: We can not do any direct grants or loans out of this office, which I would not want to see because of past precedents in the office. By statute we can't. So we do low-interest financing, which means we will put in money at a lower interest rate and we will put it into the financial institution of the group … basically it makes cheap money available. Yes, it will have to be repaid. But since it is significantly less going in, it provides the money cheaply and quickly to get it started up. Then the city puts in its portion. And we can get a partnership going, which is even better because we can double and triple our impact in terms of finances. We call this a targeted initiative program. Targeted initiative is a little bit different than a straight-up economic development program that also uses low-interest loans. We are looking for things of a more social-service nature and are something that is more of an investment in people than in actually a business. It would involve things like daycare centers, which is one of our biggest initiatives. And homes for battered women. ... I am looking forward to doing a ribbon-cutting at the Center. It will be very cool. Plus, it's right across the street from the Brown Elephant.
WCT: You have gay people on staff?
Judy Baar Topinka: Yes.
WCT: Do you have an official discrimination clause for employees?
Judy Baar Topinka: When I first started that was the first thing we did. We continued to maintain it. We don't ask people when they come through the door 'Are you gay or not.' We are just so non-discriminatory—nor do we want anybody else to be discriminatory. I think the folks that work for us that are gay are some of my best employees. They work hard and I think they are great models for the community. They are great friends.
WCT: Let's talk about the state bill and the lobbying of various elected officials the times it has come up. Going back to your first years as treasurer, things you have done in terms of lobbying.
Judy Baar Topinka: Well, we helped lobby senators and representatives. I don't have my vote anymore, which is unfortunate because I would cast it. I was one who literally voted for the Equal Rights Amendment, which I think covers that as well. It's a very important thing. It's not just talking ... I actually have a cast vote. We call representatives and senators. I went down on the floor. I wrote letters. In the last lobbying effort … it is very difficult when groups will come down and lobby, where do they go, they have no place to land because they are coming in from the outside. We made our office available like a home base so they could stop there, drop their coats and do whatever they needed to do and then go from there to the central location to be able to lobby. We threw a little reception. We made a very concerted effort.
When I was a senator, I ran a test case through the state ... . I said I have this constituent and the man's been fired because he's gay. He's done a good job, there is nothing for which to fire him. They sent me a letter saying there is nothing in the law preventing anybody from being fired like that. That is so patently unfair. Citizens in the State of Illinois should have equal rights. I am always amazed that people fight this. To me, it is not revolutionary, it is just basic … it's American.
WCT: More Democrats have supported it than Republicans have … . Your efforts in terms of lobbying would seem to be extremely important. When you were in the Senate you voted for Pate Philip to be head of the Senate, and I am wondering what your influence was on Republicans in the Senate?
Judy Baar Topinka: I think it is a reasonably good position. But for some people it is a very strong philosophical issue. Our Bright Start College Savings program, which I would think is a no-brainer because it is making money for kids, there was blood on the floor to get that thing passed in the Senate. And that wasn't philosophical, other than someone's banker didn't like it. Something of this nature [ gay rights ] is much harder to do because you have to compete with very strong ideologies. I don't think those ideologies are applicable in the question of basic fairness, and they are very difficult to deal with, and they are very dug in. You do the best you can. But when you have people that are dug in, it is hard to get them to move.
WCT: One of the things that Rick Garcia, Ellen Meyers and Art Johnston of Equality Illinois talked about is the national Republican Party and the role the Illinois Republican Party has played within that; can you talk about the planks that are in the RP of Illinois versus other states.
Judy Baar Topinka: I don't think the abortion plank should be in the national Republican Party. I think everybody picks and chooses. I think that is a divisive issue and shouldn't be there. Now, if I am elected and let's say I am the only one elected [ statewide ] . And right now my polls show I am running pretty well, which is unusual for a treasurer at the bottom of a ticket. If I am the only Republican elected, I now then become the titular head of the Republican Party. And if that is the case the Republican Party takes on a little different look. I am a moderate Republican and very fiscally conservative. I make no bones about it. But I don't think those two are mutually exclusive. You can get a lot for your money if you pay attention to how to use it. I don't mind spending money as long as I get something for it. I am a very tolerant person and I am a fair person. I am not going to tell you I have all the virtues in the world because I don't. But tolerance and fairness are two. It's a decent thing to do and a decent thing to be. I will fight for that because I think it's basically Bill-of-Rights American.
WCT: Was there much of a battle going on within the Republican Party for that more moderate vote that was going on in primary … is that still relevant now in the general election?
Judy Baar Topinka: I think it's relevant. But one of the things you have with candidates and sometimes you argue the philosophical problem as opposed to the personal problem. To be a candidate for public officer and be successful I think you have to have a basic chemistry with people. People just have to like you or not. And whatever you build on top of it, it has to start with 'did you connect to begin with.' And I don't think that Corinne Wood [ who ran for governor ] was a good example of that. I don't think she connected. ...
WCT: Talk about your Senate district ( near-west suburban ) , because the treasurer's office is not something that votes on legislation. For us it's about how candidates progress over the years. In the '80s, around legislation on HIV issues for example, there's some HIV issues that you were very against. For example, to allow dentists to refuse treatment to people with HIV, or to allow schools to discriminate against children with HIV.
Judy Baar Topinka: You know it was funny because the first time I went and interviewed with a gay group, I told them 'I really don't know what your issues are because I don't know any gay people.' And they said, 'You'd be surprised. Yes you do.' I said, 'I don't think so.' And yes I did.
WCT: It was at a time where votes on HIV were constantly coming up in the legislature ...
Judy Baar Topinka: The needle-exchange one … I still worry about that because I don't think that's a good way to go. I know I had some discussions with doctors about that because I am concerned once you put a needle into circulation it gets passed around. It may be a clean needle to begin with, and you may trade in a clean needle, but that needle does not necessarily stay clean.
WCT: On the AIDS Foundation of Chicago you rated 73 percent and two of the questions actually did relate to needle access. The other was on prison segregation of HIV inmates. It may be that you want to talk a little bit more on that.
Judy Baar Topinka: I don't like the idea because I think inmates should just be there, but I also know what goes on in prisons. And you can indeed spread AIDS within the prison by doing that. And I don't think the guards or anybody else, no matter what you say, can do anything about that. The only way you could do it is with segregation. I don't know that I have a very good answer for that except to try and educate and make aware. But it is so different from what we all live with. It is very condensed, very intense. I know what goes on in prisons, I used to be a police reporter. It's going to spread AIDS and you are going to make a lot of people sick. And ultimately you don't want to make people sick. That would be of concern to me. I don't know if I have the answer how to do it better though. If there's a better way, show me a better way.
WCT: How about allowing a dentist to refuse treatment of someone with HIV …
Judy Baar Topinka: Now, that you can't do.
WCT: … allowing for children to be kicked out of school … these were votes you voted in favor of. Since you mentioned being titular head of Republican Party, if you are re-elected, these HIV issues are more relevant than they might seem just to the treasurer's office. Talk about your progression on these issues.
Judy Baar Topinka: I just know more about them. I know more about what people are doing. Plus, the medications and programs we have out there have been relatively successful in addressing those issues. Part of it just was educational. AIDS was new on the scene. I had never dealt with it. You are as good as what you learn. You are as good as what you know.
WCT: Would you be in favor of the state of Illinois having domestic-partnership for state employees?
Judy Baar Topinka: We should start discussing that issue. Again, I think these are things that you do; start the talk and you start bringing people in to make those issues relevant. I see bills passing now that I put forward 10 years ago that I couldn't pass 10 years ago. I was just 10 years ahead of myself. And likewise for these types of issues, they need to be addressed and we will talk about them, put them into committee. Part of it, too, is electing folks like [ openly gay Rep. ] Larry McKeon, who is HIV+, who can speak to those issues personally on the floor. Hiring people in state government in policy positions who can speak to those issues. People are afraid of what they don't know. Obviously, having those things go on in our office and go on in other offices opens the door to those discussions and makes them a little more relevant and easier to deal with.
WCT: You mentioned children. And one of the big issues facing the gay and lesbian community is the foster care issue and how gay kids in that system have very little voice, especially teenagers. The foster care system does not seem to have much available for children and their rights. What have you done as a legislator or as a treasurer that relates to gay and lesbian teenagers and homelessness for gay teens?
Judy Baar Topinka: I think we can help put up the finances for places that would provide homes for them. I suppose that's probably the most impact that we can have. I don't recall there was all that much legislatively on that issue. It is an issue that is evolving as people know more about it. It wasn't just a big issue at that time. As it goes on, I think you will see it evolve. I don't think anybody wants to see kids like that tossed out on the street with no place to go. That's criminal.
WCT: Let's go on to choice issues. What about Medicaid funding for abortion?
Judy Baar Topinka: Medicaid is so stressed. I really have a problem with that. I do not like public funding for abortion. I think we have enough agencies.
WCT: Other people see this as a healthcare related. You are not seeing this as a healthcare related procedure?
Judy Baar Topinka: I see how it is healthcare related, but I do feel it should be … I would prefer to have it done by private agencies and not by public funding because it is so divisive.
WCT: In terms of access to abortion itself, Cook County Hospital is one of the few hospitals …
Judy Baar Topinka: Everyone should have the ability to be able to do it. Now, religious hospitals, that is a different ball of wax because they are religious hospitals, they have the right to refuse, but they also have to have the right of referral, they have a duty to refer. If they're not going to do it then they really need to tell a woman where she can go to have it done.
WCT: There is a law on the books in Illinois that if Roe v. Wade is overturned, Illinois will revert back to pre-Roe v. Wade, meaning it will be illegal immediately upon reversal.
Judy Baar Topinka:I don't think we should make it illegal.
WCT: Would you favor overturning that law?
Judy Baar Topinka: Yes I would. I am not going to prosecute women and turn people into felons over something like this. I am just not going to do it.
WCT: Are there any other things you want to address?
Judy Baar Topinka: Because I am not pure on the issue ... the pro-choicers don't like me. The pro-lifers don't like me. I have no place to land. I am out there in the middle telling you individually what goes what doesn't go. It is representative, really, of how most of America feels. I don't take money from NARAL [ the National Abortion Rights Action League ] . I don't take money from the [ conservative ] Eagle Forum. I was endorsed by the Wish List, the Republican version of Emily's List. [ And even in professional women's groups, on abortion ] , because I am not 100 percent pure, I could not be endorsed. Sometimes you can't have it all. And sometimes you have to work at issues. This issue has a strong religious connotation and when you interject religion into things, there are people who will believe one way and there will be people who believe the other way, which does not make them intrinsically bad. They just feel strongly. For the people who feel abortion is murder, I can understand what they are saying. If you say abortion is murder, then all the other arguments fall from that point. But I also have problems with people who say abortion is murder but they support the death penalty. I do support the death penalty. I am consistent.
