Sandra Bernhard______________
Throughout her career, Sandra Bernhard has always been a provocative tour de force. Her observations on life are sometimes bitter and often ironic, but always hysterical—and I just love her. Sandra comes to Chicago as part of the Steppenwolf Traffic Jam Series for two shows on Sat., March 3, only. After seeing many of Sandra's shows—from the brilliant Without You I Am Nothing to her most recent critical hit, Everything Bad and Beautiful—it is a show that is such to feature sharp wit, along with good music. ( She will appear with her band, The Rebellious Jezebels. )
I talked with Sandra about the show, her partner, politics, The L Word and much more. There is nothing like hearing the seductive sarcasm that comes dripping off her tongue.
Windy City Times: I looked up the word tour de force—because I'm kind of a word junkie—and it [ is defined as ] 'a thing of brilliance,' and that's what reminds me of you.
SB: That's what a tour de force is? Really? I had no idea.
WCT: You came to Chicago with [ your show ] Hero Worship, which was your response to 9/11—and, lady, things have gone from bad to worse since you did that show.
SB: I haven't stopped, believe me. I was one of the first people after 9/11 to bust out and say, 'Listen. I don't think it's everything that it appears to be.' I think there was a lot of coercion, a lot of lying. There was a lot of bullshit. And, you know, Bush has just topped it off with one deception after the next. I think it's kind of the end of cronyism in politics at this point. I think it's really interesting to see [ Barack ] Obama …
WCT: Our homeboy…
SB: Yeah. [ I saw Obama ] on 60 Minutes last night, coming out and talking and really addressing things head on: racial, political [ and ] international issues. I don't know; it sounded like he was really genuine. It's just enough. People want the truth and they want it from somebody who's not afraid to upset the apple cart.
WCT: You're a political gal. What are your thoughts on Hillary? Barack? The possibility of a woman or an African-American becoming president?
SB: Well, up until really yesterday, I thought it was going to be all about Hillary. And I have to say, being a woman I always try to hold the highest thoughts for other women. I just feel like maybe it's kind of the end of the line for the Clintons, and maybe it should be. I think that she's a very political beast and I think she plays a certain game that's not that different from many of the men. I just think somebody needs to say no. The war in Iraq has to end.
We've got to pull out; we've got to finish it off. No matter how it ends, it's not going to be a good thing. We blew it. We went in there, we stirred up the hornet's nest, we tried to impose our will on an ancient culture, and we don't know anything about those kinds of cultures that are thousands of years old. We can't go in and say, 'You want our kind of liberty and our kind of thinking.' They don't! It's a disaster. The prime minister of Australia said [ we should pull out ] in March 2008. I don't know if you heard about that, but he said that voting for Obama in March 2008 would be the perfect triumph for al-Qaeda. Excuse me: [ Our election is in ] November, schmuck! But other than that, you're great. I mean he's such a putz. I was over in Australia about two years ago and he's just like Bush's butt boy … one of those guys.
WCT: As we're talking about Bush, I just have to [ ask ] : Your appearance on The View created quite a buzz. YouTube went nuts with all the hits. Did you think when you were walking onto the show that you were going to stir up the hornet's nest that was [ already there ] —and, actually, blaze a trail for Rosie O'Donnell, who's just kept on with what you started?
SB: No, not at all. I have done that show so many times and … the whole thing was so out of left field. Star Jones probably knew on some level that she was getting the ax, so she was pissed off. She was always a bigmouth. She never let anybody get a word in edgewise. And Meredith Vieira was gone, so she was the only level-headed person there. So there was nobody to really pull the reins in, and then that little Elizabeth Hasselbeck was trying to flex her muscles so she thought she was going to get all political with me. It was like, 'Oh come on, what a line-up of crap!' But I, just for once… decided to not get into it [ and ] just watch the whole thing unfold. They will all reveal themselves—which they did, and it was kind of genius.
WCT: Are you glad Rosie's on the show now?
SB: Yeah, I mean I think she's perfect for it. I just wish there was a more fun, entertaining way of talking about what's around us and in front of us. I don't know. I feel like I'm better suited to talking about things and still keep it ironic and weird and funny. I think you have to walk that fine line between still being entertaining and I think a lot of people lose it when they get into the, 'I'm going to make a statement' mode. But she's great on the show. I think obviously she works very well.
WCT: Music is such an integral part to your live shows. What do you think about Mary J. Blige and the year she has had, [ as well as ] the Dixie Chicks and the pat on the back they've finally gotten after being left out to dry?
SB: You know, I watched part of Grammys … and I was excited for the Dixie Chicks, because I'm particularly good friends with Natalie Maines. But I think there's too much out there. Personally, I'm overloaded; I'm overloaded with the downloading. I feel shut down to music right now. I just don't feel like there's a lot that inspires me. It's a weird dilemma, because I love music so much but I'm just burnt out on it.
WCT: Are you putting original songs in this new show?
SB: I have one original song in the show in Chicago that I actually co-wrote a few years ago with Mitch Kaplan, who I've written almost all my musical explorations with, but I'm doing some covers too, because you know I have a way of doing them that has a whole other sense of irony and emotion to them.
WCT: In Everything Bad and Beautiful you talked about your partner. [ It's ] the first time I've ever heard you talk about a relationship in a show. Why did it seem like it was the right time to finally talk [ about it ] ?
SB: Well, I think when you feel like a relationship is solid and there's really something to be mined from it, then you kind of go there. And before it was always … I don't know. I just didn't have that much respect for the people [ I was with ] . Now I do. It was really worth putting myself on the line. It's important to have ambiguity.
WCT: I think ambiguity is an important part of you. You're kind of a gal for men and women, gay and straight. Looking back at your career, you had the hot Playboy spread, and then you had this titillating friendship with Madonna that started all of those rumors. It seems like there's always been a little bit of Sandra for everybody.
I'm curious as to why. Was it because … there is this ambiguity about who you are? You were never pigeonholed as a lesbian or bisexual performer.
SB: I think that's the least important component to my work. I think that addressing [ ambiguity in ] sexuality and romance and love and all those things is across the board.
WCT: Reverend Ted Haggard [ has ] now announced that he has had intense counseling and Jesus has put him back together.
SB: Yeah, he's cured of his homosexuality in two weeks. I mean he's such a complete flaming queen! I finally saw him in that documentary on HBO [ A Friend of God ] that was directed by Nancy Pelosi's daughter, and it was just interesting to see him because it was like, 'No shit! You're gay.'
WCT: How is motherhood continuing to change you?
SB: It's always a constant challenge and testing my patience. Sometimes you want to tear your hair out. She's a great kid. She's changed my life in every wonderful way, but there are moments when it can be a little exhausting.
WCT: Do you feel like the relationship and the child have softened you? Or do you still get angry about things?
SB: I don't consider myself to be a soft person in any way shape or form. I think I feel more relaxed than I did 10 years ago. You can't keep up that pace and stress level forever, but I did a pretty good job of it.
Sandra Bernhard is at Steppenwolf Theatre on one night only: Sat., March 3, at 7 p.m. and 9:30 p.m. For tickets, visit Steppenwolf.org or call 312-335-1650.
Hear the entire interview on www.WindyCityQueercast.com .
