Jim McGreevey. Photo by Rob Reed. Jim McGreevey being sworn in with his wife and child at his side. At his wedding to Dina. With partner Mark O'Donnell. Photos from the McGreevey book.
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In August 2004, Gov. Jim McGreevey of New Jersey stunned the country when he stepped before microphones, declared 'My truth is that I am a gay American,' and announced his resignation. The story certainly generated headlines; however, what led to that moment was more complex and fascinating than anyone suspected.
McGreevey details everything in his new book, The Confession. Recently, he met with Windy City Times and talked about being honest, coming out badly—and if he would run for office again.
Windy City Times: You say early on in your book that the spontaneous life was not for you [ after a childhood bully threatened him ] . Do you still feel that way?
Jim McGreevey: No, it's so radically changed. It's all about self-acceptance and embracing the truth. So much of the planning was an effort to avoid myself and deny my truth. Now, there's so much more of a healthy spontaneity and a grounded sense of self-acceptance. It's how God meant for people to live their lives.
WCT: With everything that happened with Dina [ McGreevey's wife at the time of his coming out ] , I don't think many people realize that you've been married twice. How are things with your first wife, Kari? [ Note: According to McGreevey, he said on The Oprah Winfrey Show that things with second wife Dina are 'in transition.' ]
JM: Wonderful. She could not be more supportive. She spent a week with my daughter and [ my partner ] Mark [ O'Donnell ] and I in our home in Plainfield, N.J. She's been a great rock of support, strength and understanding. And now what's even more special is the honesty [ and ] the truthfulness—you can't have happiness without honesty.
WCT: So honesty is the best policy.
JM: Yeah, and as [Hamlet] says, 'To thine own self be true.' That's self-acceptance. Andrew, dumping the shame as well as the lessons of the culture and the Church that say being gay is inferior—all those harmful, destructive notions I accepted as a child and as a young adult ...
That's why I feel so passionate about gay rights, gay marriage and gay advocacy. Until we're accepted fully as total equal human beings in the eyes of the law, there's an implicit message of being 'less than' or 'not as good as.'
Self-acceptance or self-love has to be the cornerstone. Without that, you don't develop healthy relationships, healthy communities [ or ] healthy countries.
WCT: And, of course, there are people struggling with their sexuality every day. It's just that your struggle and coming out were more public than most.
JM: Oh, Andrew—since I've published the book, there have been hundreds of people and thousands of letters [ that have come forth ] . And there are many closets; there are not just sexual closets, but there are political closets, family closets, war closets and relational closets. The need to be truthful and honest is the first step towards happiness—and godliness, because it was hard to establish a relationship with my God unless I was first being true to myself. I had to accept that being gay is God's grace that it is a source of pride, revelation and celebration.
WCT: So what do you have to say to religious conservatives?
JM: Being gay is as natural as being straight or having blue or brown eyes. It's a gift from God, it's who we are and it's a grace. Each person has to be afforded the dignity and respect of being part of this creation. For one group to claim superiority to another group is not only hateful and corrosive to the gay community, but is ultimately hateful and corrosive to those who would condemn.
WCT: Looking back, were you truly in love with your wives or did you simply think you were in love?
JM: I was in love—but it was not love in the fullness of what marriage ought to be ( in the senses of psychological, spiritual, emotional and sexual love ) because part of myself was divided. There was an aspect of denial.
WCT: So you wouldn't say you're bisexual?
JM: No, [ I would say ] I'm gay.
WCT: In an interview with Mark Segal of the Philadelphia Gay News, you said that you're 'the poster child for coming out badly.' Why did you say that?
JM: Well, what I wish for young people is [ that they can ] come out with pride and with an easy grace—without the pain and edginess. So, I made a recommendation to gay youth who are interested in politics to [ just ] say you're gay, own it, be proud of it and move on. For me and for many my age, it was a messy, tortured process that involved so much pain and emotion—which it should not, because we were about denial. Hopefully, I will be the last generation that will choose between the heart and a career.
For me, it was about denial of my gayness. Hopefully, for the next generation it will be about acceptance of their gayness, their strength and their grace. And it's happening; I see it on college campuses now.
WCT: Oh, things have grown by leaps and bounds. For example, there weren't any gay-straight alliances when I went to high school. Now, they're so many of them.
JM: Yes—so I'm very optimistic. I'm very hopeful.
WCT: You stated in your book that you never kissed a man until your mid-40s.
JM: Yep.
WCT: So all those [ same-sex ] encounters that you had while growing up and as a young man ...
JM: Never—because a kiss represented a simple, honest, emotional and sexual attraction. What is sickening about the closet is that there is a denial. While there may be an anonymous tryst, there's still a denial of acceptance. At the core level, I refused to accept that I was gay because I was wrapped in shame and guilt.
Kissing Golan was so free because it was a recognition of my attraction, and it was also the first sustained [ gay ] relationship I had, as opposed to an anonymous tryst. It was wonderful, but dishonest.
[ Note: Golan Cipel, who McGreevey hired as his adviser on homeland security, told the Associated Press that he never had an affair with McGreevey and has claimed that the now-former governor sexually harassed him. ]
WCT: Do you remember the last words you said to Golan?
JM: [ Pauses. ] Yes. We left the hotel. I went to shake his hand and he refused to shake mine, saying 'You are not my friend.' I said, 'Golan, I am your friend. I'm standing here with you.' He couldn't accept that he could no longer be in the government. I think it was difficult for him to be outside the access to power.
WCT: What do you think you would say to him if you saw him right now?
JM: I'd wish him well. I'd wish him peace. I'd apologize for the harm I caused him by bringing him to the United States and for falling—what I thought—was in love.
WCT: If it wasn't love, what was it?
JM: Well, I thought it was but, clearly, after the extortion lawsuit, it wasn't for him. I wouldn't do that to someone I love.
WCT: Do you see myself as a role model?
JM: It's almost being the antihero. I hope for an America in which their children can embrace being gay proudly and strongly. [ In sum, ] I don't think of myself as a hero. I probably would have never had the courage to come out but for the necessity to do so in the face of a lawsuit. My reality was painful, ugly, edgy and wounding—but we each travel our own path, and even with all the pain and suffering I have found grace.
An old priest said that, 'The cracks in the vase are where God's grace comes through.' It's in pain where there's transformation. It's in pain where we realize our humanity.
WCT: You have been described as the most famous gay man in America right now, but you've been arguably [ eclipsed ] by Rep. Mark Foley. What's your impression of that situation?
JM: It's sad and tragic. The entire nature of someone in power exercising influence or control over a younger person and the tragedy that occur [ are sad ] . There's also the sickness of the secret; as Alcoholics Anonymous says, 'We're only as sick as our secrets.' I think it will be a long time before all of the circumstances are known.
Secrets are inherently damning and harmful. I accepted the shame and I acted out in unhealthy ways—and, in part, those unhealthy ways were shameful for me, which only compounded the shame. That's why the slate has to be clean. Young people need to know that [ sexual orientation ] is part of nature. What's also problematic is when religion sends hateful messages; God is about love, nurturing and support. Religion distorts that spirituality by teaching shame and guilt. It's a doubly corrosive thing for gay children, especially, because religion says that man and God are saying that gay people are inferior.
Our society must understand the importance of embracing children. As critical as the fight for gay marriage is, we also need to support federal anti-bullying legislation where teachers and principals will also be held accountable for the destructive acts of peers. Every child—regardless of race, creed or sexual orientation—needs to be protected.
WCT: [ Switching back, ] I want to read to you an op-ed piece from The Pocono Record: 'McGreevey didn't have to resign from office because he is gay. This is New Jersey, not Utah. It was that he preferred boys to girls—he put his lover on the state payroll in an anti-terrorism job the man was patently unqualified for. Then, when that proved untenable, McGreevey gave the man a different job as an aide with undefined responsibilities—at $110,000 a year.' What's your response?
JM: It's true! Again, it goes to the mark of needing to be honest—with myself and where I was. With that honesty comes the power of change. What I've heard time and time again is that, despite the fear and shame, coming out was a difficult but great process.
WCT: Do you see yourself ever running for office again?
JM: Probably not. I want to be an advocate for children and poverty. Fourteen million children are going to bed hungry tonight, Andrew, when you and I were blessed with food on the table, clothes on our backs and the warmth of the bedroom. Fourteen million American children in a country that's spending $300 billion on the war in Iraq ...
I also want to be an advocate for gay youth. I mean, the suicide rate and the sense of fear [ are sad ] . Over a third of this nation considers itself to be evangelical Christians. The heartache and the suffering that young gay people have to confront in certain parts of this country requires us as a nation and as a community to support their efforts.
WCT: What's the best part of being with [ partner ] Mark [ O'Donnell ] ?
JM: [ Smiles. ] It's the simplicity, the easiness, the openness—the love. It's just easy, natural and healthy.
WCT: So you feel complete?
JM: Totally—as never before in my life. For me, love is uncomplicated, but very powerful. I never felt that I was entitled to it, but now I do.
Every day, I work to dump the vestiges of shame. I need to take responsibility for the wrong things I've done and I will do that throughout my life. I also need to embrace my gay identity with pride, dignity and radical self-acceptance.
WCT: So who is Jim McGreevey?
JM: [ I am ] an imperfect, loving gay American who is searching for my God as I try to do the next right things and who looks forward to the day that every child, regardless of their sexuality, is embraced with respect, dignity and value.
WCT: Essentially, what do you want people to take away from your book?
JM: The importance of being truthful, the importance of self-acceptance and the importance of honesty—and, for our community, the sense of pride in being gay. Dumping the messages of shame as well as the toxicity and the destructive rhetoric of those who would degrade us [ is also important ] . Hopefully, I can also [ get ] gay children and youth to embrace who they are.
