THE VOICE OF CHICAGO'S GAY, LESBIAN, BI, TRANS AND QUEER COMMUNITY SINCE 1985

Windy City Times: The Mormon church's anti-gay stance has provided material for a lot of creative endeavors—from a myriad of theatrical shows, books, fictional films and documentaries, including your own movie—having been so close to the subject for such a long time, do you think that there will ever be a possibility of finding common ground between the church and the gay community?

Reed Cowan: Well all I can do is site the history of the Mormon Church relative to other similar issues. It's very well documented that the Mormon Church and its members fought the ERA [ Equal Rights Amendment ] and eventually when it became unpopular to do so they softened. The church did not allow Black people into full participation until 1978—or maybe even beyond, by some accounts. So we have seen in the past the Mormon Church has, when they've been on the line, they've changed. I think what will happen is that we'll see change only when our government is able to send a message to them, "Look, you either stop getting involved in politics of seeking away rights from gay people or we will take away your tax exempt status." That's when I think you'll see change.

WCT: So, when gay marriage eventually becomes a reality in this country—which we know it will someday—how will the Mormon Church deal with it?

Reed Cowan: I think they'll be the last. I think they'll be the final hounds of hell against this but I think eventually they'll have to, in some way, acknowledge it. Will it happen? I don't know. But if the arc of history has anything to tell us it's bent toward justice for other marginalized groups and the LDS church was the very last holdout in the country in all of those instances.

WCT: Why don't these big time gay and lesbian groups sue them for defamation of character?

Reed Cowan: I think that would be very interesting to do. I'm a friend of many people in the HRC [ Human Rights Campaign ] and GLAAD [ Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation ] , but that's a conversation we have not had. I would anticipate that when you look at action and lawsuits you realize that it's very expensive to do so and the Mormon Church is definitely a Goliath where money is concerned.

WCT: Even in the film there's a brief moment where you call their spokesperson and she seems to nervously say, "We don't want to get into any dustup with the gay community" and you definitely get the idea there's a hesitation to publicly go against us.

Reed Cowan: Yes, because look what happens—they're exposed for their bigotry and its ugly and it's distasteful to the people that they need to fill their pews and ultimately their coffers. Keep in mind that to participate in Mormonism you give 10 percent of everything you own to the church. So them not wanting to get front and center with a battle with the gay community as she puts it is all about public relations. There have been accounts of the Mormon Church having to close certain branches of their operations in California because membership dwindled after Proposition 8 to the point where they took a financial hit for taking their stand.

WCT: Your film goes way beyond the Mormon Church's attempts to defeat gay marriage and claims a history by them of antigay tactics. Can you talk about that?

Reed Cowan: Through my research we know that there are many who claim being subject to electric shock aversion therapy at Brigham Young University. The Church has denied that ever happened but there are just too many people whose stories are the same thing. We know that there are claims that go into the 1990s of electric shock aversion therapy. We also know that the Mormon Church is very supportive of a group called Evergreen which is a group that counsels gay people in what is known as reparative therapy and they definitely believe that you can conform with the standards of the Mormon Church to going with their program and by conformity I mean leading a celibate life. They're huge supporters of that.

I believe, to the detriment of anyone who goes into those programs. I've known some who have come out and committed suicide; some who get married and cheat on their wives on the side and compartmentalize their lives. I know a lot of really ugly situations that have come out of that. They don't talk about those.