Eight months after the May 2009 release of Outrage, his third documentary with prominent gay themes ( Twist of Faith and This Film Is Not Yet Rated being the others ) , filmmaker Kirby Dick is still outraged. That's not just because the subjects of his latest film—ostensibly closeted politicians voting against their own kind, the shameful history of this practice and the question of outing itself—are still blithely moving forward, thanks to a pass seemingly given them by the mainstream media. It's also because many in the mainstream media reacted to the film with kid gloves—going so far as refusing to reveal the names of some of those profiled in the documentary in their coverage ( which seemed to reinforce the message of the movie ) .
Then, just as Outrage was coming to DVD the media-watchdog organization GLAAD bypassed the film in its list of nominations for the year's best documentary because it didn't want to "glorify a movie about people who run from who they are"—an oversight that quickly brought a disgruntled response from members of the LGBT media. In an exclusive interview with Windy City Times, Dick was ready to give an update on that situation, talk about the history of his passion for gay injustice ( he's straight ) , and a lot more.
Windy City Times: What's up with this GLAAD situation?
Kirby Dick: I was actually kind of hurt by that. I had interviewed Neil Giuliano, the former executive director of GLAAD. He's in the film and is very supportive of the film and makes some very strong arguments about the closet and GLAAD nominated This Film Is Not Yet Rated for a GLAAD award and I thought…
WCT: A slam dunk, right?
Kirby Dick: Well not just a slam dunk but, "we're fighting for the same cause here, side by side." So I was just so surprised that they decided to not really even consider it. That was kind of a blow. I mean an award's just an award but it felt like your friend didn't invite you for dinner or something.
WCT: And the response about why they didn't consider it was so disingenuous.
Kirby Dick: Yes. If there ever was a film that was eligible this one met their criteria to a "T." I think it was a number of things which I don't want to speculate on too much. But certainly one of them, I'm sure, is that some people that were uncomfortable because there were obviously some gays and lesbians in the film that are not portrayed in a positive light because they shouldn't be, of course. But on the other hand, too, this is all about the heroism and persistence of gay journalists and gay activists over the last two decades. This is really an untold story as far as the mainstream media is concerned and these people are heroes to me and to a lot of people.
WCT: There was also this bizarre hesitancy on the part of the mainstream media to name names in the film when you did press for the film originally. I seem to recall that one of the reasons given was that your sources were not considered valid because their connection to the person in question was of a sexual nature.
Kirby Dick: Right. One of the strategies of making this film was I felt that by making a high profile documentary the press was going to have to deal with this in a way that they had never dealt with it before. The reason was because the entertainment press would actually be less concerned about reporting on the names that were reported on in the film.
It's always the more political press that has been very careful on that side. In fact, that's exactly what happened. The New York Times, the LA Times, the San Francisco Chronicle, I think ABC News, at one point, actually did report and name names but a there were a lot that didn't—NPR, the Washington Post, etc. But that's a breakthrough. I knew this whole issue of how the media covers this would be open for debate and NPR came through [ laughs ] with a shining example of being regressive on this issue. The great thing is that the NPR thing happened at such a perfect time. It just proved the argument about it in the film. The strategy worked to a fairly large degree.
WCT: Obviously at some people, you reached a comfort level with gay people.
Kirby Dick: Early on. My parents were always liberal. I wasn't brought up with any kind of homophobia per se other than the homophobia that exists in society and certainly that was a part of me but when I was in high school my best friend came out to me and I'm actually very grateful for that experience. All the questions and issues that I might have or any residual homophobia was dealt with—oftentimes in very long conversations at night about everything. And then, of course, being in the arts it's just such a non-issue.
WCT: Can we please talk about the late, great gay activist Roger MacFarlane, who is prominent in the film and is beautifully memorialized in the DVD's special features? I love the biographical section but even more the post-Outrage screening Q&A he conducted with you and Larry Kramer and Michelangelo Signorile.
Kirby Dick: I remember saying goodbye to him and less than a week later he committed suicide. From everything that I can glean from that he was in real pain. From my perspective here's a man who has lived his life exactly the way he wanted to so it's no surprise to me that he chose to die in exactly the way he wanted to. It's sad that he's no longer around but in some ways I kind of admire the fact that he had control of his life and his death in a way.
WCT: This is the third film that really touches on gay subject manner—why the passion for the subject?
Kirby Dick: I am very interested in outsiders and the position of being an outsider. And I think, hopefully, that will change and change soon for gays and lesbians but I think there is an element of that—of seeing the world and experiencing it in a very profound way obviously very different than the mainstream. I think that's part of the reason. Secondly, I've always wanted to include sexuality in my films whenever and wherever possible. So, hey? [ laughs ] It's right there.
WCT: What would have been your Oscar speech if the film had been nominated?
Kirby Dick: I'd invite Larry Kramer—who I think is one of the great activists of the last hundred years—to come up in my place. He exemplifies what an activist is for me.
WCT: What are you working on next, Kirby?
Kirby Dick: I'm working on some pretty aggressive stuff but I can't really talk about it because I don't want them to get a heads-up that I'm coming their way.
WCT: Okay, good—go get 'em!
Kirby Dick: Will do. [ Laughs ]
