Buffalo, N.Y.-born political activist/comedienne Kate Clinton, 63, leaves no stone unturned in her exclusive interview. Whether on the topic of airport bathrooms, political humor, top-heavy gay-rights organizations, military practices or social networking, her steady approach is a slow hand … and that is something she's fundamentally proud of ( even if she is a lazy top—something we don't quite believe to be true ) .
Windy City Times: Was there someone in your life who kind of tickled your funny bone and got you thinking about your humor? Was there someone who inspired you in your life?
Kate Clinton: Well, there were lots of them, but right off the top of my head is a friend of mine who was my best friend's mother. I always call her my "comedy mom." Her name's Jane, she's now 92, and she would call me up and say, "Channel 2, right now" and I would turn it on and it would be Merv Griffin and Bette Midler. Or she'd say, "Come over, you've got to hear this record" and it would be Mike Nichols and Elaine May.
And she did things like … she got the Frederick's of Hollywood catalog and she would make me do dramatic readings from them. They would get these dreadful long Christmas letters from people, and she would say, "Okay read this one" and then she would say, "Do it in a German accent." I was in high school, but I was doing performances for her.
She definitely was my comedy mom. My own mom was very, very funny, but had five kids and believed that there should be a good three square meals a day for everyone, so she was very busy, but she was wicked funny. And my position in the family is middle child. I have two older brothers, a younger brother, and finally, finally a younger sister. So it [ comedy ] was certainly a way of getting attention, but my three brothers were big football players, so when football season was over, I was like the tackling dummy. If I could make them laugh, they would just get weak and fall down. So that was sort of what I did.
WCT: You're touring now with the Glee Party Tour. You've been on the road for 30 years now doing comedy and I would imagine you've seen a lot.
KC: I've seen a lot of airports, yes.
WCT: Yes, I bet you have and a lot of nasty, stinky airport bathrooms and stuff, but I'm wondering—how do you stay inspired after 30 years?
KC: I have no other actual skills! You know, I think it's certainly been … 23 of those years … I have been with Urvashi Vaid, my dear partner. If I ever start slacking off she's like, "Come on." So she has definitely inspired me. I constantly believe that people can change. I called it The Glee Party, because it's like we're in the middle of the "Great Recession" and I think that we need some laughter and some glee just to get through these tough times. I don't know what else to do; I love what I do. My optimism has certainly taken some knocks, but what's the alternative?
WCT: You just touched on something that I feel very strongly about with the type of work that I'm doing right now in that … what's the alternative? You have to believe. We have to not lose sight of that. I think it can happen easily if you're not diligent.
KC: But we have evidence. Certainly in the last year, we have experienced the repeal of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" [ DADT ] and marriage equality in New York state. It'll be a fight and it'll be a lot of back and forth. There will be the backlash, but we have evidence that, unlike a lot of other liberation movements, we are really making progress. It might not feel like it, but it's true. I did this documentary called Taking a Chance on God with Father John McNeill, who wrote The Church and the Homosexual 30 or 40 years ago. I was talking to him the other day and we were both saying that it's pretty astounding how far we've come. I mean, it's a cold comfort when we have the Christo-Fascists on the rise in the Republican Party, but I often feel that the level of what is against us is a good measure of the things that we are doing.
WCT: I always say we're going to win full equality through attrition. I don't mean that in any ill state toward anyone, but I just think that there's this understanding; the young kids are getting it. They're getting the message and they are activating.
KC: Absolutely. I went yesterday down to the Occupy Wall Street demonstration and it's just so exciting. They're very smart and very tech-savvy. Against all odds they are there [ protesting for what they believe in ] . I found it very cheery, and it [ the crowd ] was really racially-mixed, age-mixed and there were women in leadership positions.
WCT: So let's get back to the funny side of life because, really, it is all pretty funny when you think about it. Have you ever been heckled? How did you deal with it?
KC: Well, you know, I taught high school English for eight years, and no matter what I do, I think I still throw that vibe.
WCT: That you command the room and are the teacher—the person in charge?
KC: Yeah, and no, you're not going to do that [ heckle ] . I mean, I've had problems with people who were really drunk and thought that a rhetorical question was a question directed at them. Oh my God, but even then I felt that my high school English teaching days helped me kind of cut the hoodlums from the herd and move along. Although, I'm not…I performed this summer in Provincetown in the Cabaret Room and it was really intimate and for the first time, I really picked on people. And, I mean, my version of picking on someone is like, "Wow, that's a great hat", you know? It was actually fun to do that. But I don't encourage that kind of put down, slice and dice stuff.
WCT: So, curiously, why political humor?
KC: My dear gal pal, probably for 22 years, has said to me after every show, "Well that was too long, and you need to do more politics." So, she has certainly kept me [ honest ] . I mean, I have that [ political humor ] in my blood from my mother and father and it is something that interests me. The good news is that there are enough LGBT comics specializing in their own topics. There are people that do relational humor, or southern white fundamentalist humor, etc. so that I can do political humor. It's sort of a niche that I'm happy to fill. But it's not all politics. I'm also struggling with new technology; there's a half an hour of material.
WCT: So it sounds like you've got a wife or … do you call her your wife?
KC: No, I can't say that word at all. I feel like Annie Sullivan in The Miracle Worker when she tries to say water, you know like, "Waaaa"…I can't say it. No, I can't do it.
WCT: So, you seem to have a friendship with the National Center for Lesbian Rights ( NCLR ) and the National Gay & Lesbian Task Force ( NGLTF ) . Do you ever think that—and this is kind of, I'm the editor so I'm going to push you on some questions and you can certainly answer them the way you want…
KC: You're not scaring me.
WCT: Okay. I'm trying, I'm trying.
KC: You are so not scaring me.
WCT: Do you think that some of these organizations are a little top heavy?
KC: I don't think there's enough top. There should be more top, really. Absolutely. I think there should be a butch top in every role and things would be better and we'd get more done.
WCT: Okay, well you've clearly done this before. You completely took me off the top and put me on the bottom.
KC: Well, the older you get, the more you become a lazy top. Like, you're still in charge, but you get to lie down.
WCT: Do you see yourself as an activist?
KC: Yes, an activist top.
WCT: An activist top, okay. Can I quote you on that?
KC: Please do. Oh, absolutely. I think that we all bring to activism our own particular skill set. Mine is definitely not running a meeting.
WCT: Although I think it'd be a hell of a fun meeting.
KC: Mine is oh, you're having a dinner and you need an MC, and you want to raise some money? Okay, I'll be there.
WCT: On a serious note—I mean who wants to go serious? But, do you think we're getting it right with our fight for equality? What would you do differently? Don't get all diplomatic on me now.
KC: I think we will have more success when we really see that we need to hook up with other liberation movements. I mean, we need to work with people on poverty, for example. A really cheering example for me is that the NGLTF is doing great work with immigration with the National Center for Latino Rights. So, for example, the Task Force is there on their issues while the immigration people are there on their issues. I think we've been doing amazing work under such circumstances, but I think we have more success when we hook up with other liberation movements. I worry that we'll get federal marriage equality and then everybody will be like, "Excellent. I'm going to a cruise!" Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I think that we need to work with other liberation movements.
WCT: Kate, in my work—I've been traveling a lot, speaking at universities—one of the questions that gets posed to me often is, "Who should I work for in this fight for equal rights? How do I help you?" And I always find myself stopping not being sure how to proceed in responding. It's one of the hardest questions for me to answer for people. What do you say when asked that question?
KC: Well I think it's … who's having the most sex? What organization is really hot? I mean, why not? People have an idea that working with other people on an exciting issue or for a candidate is really dreary and horrible, but a lot of times it's really freaking hot and fun. I don't think we emphasize the excitement enough. It just seems like a big drudge chore, but I think that we…I mean how many times have you talked with someone and they're like, "Well I sent an email." Like oh, great, thank you. But I think the excitement of actually working with other people, you can't beat it. I got to see it yesterday again. People just hanging out and talking, and talking about issues, getting pizza, it was great. I mean, I think there's an example of only 4% of LGBT people actually donating money to our LGBT cause, which is ridiculous. So that's one thing you could start is just a little bit of checkbook advocacy.
Another thing is that I believe in study groups. I believe in a movie group. You get together 8-10 people every month, and you go to a movie together and you talk about it after. Or you read a book and you talk about it after. I think that there are things like that you can organize just for the pure pleasure of physically being with people. And it's not that social networking, it's actual networking. You know, what are you doing? Get together. Touch people for god's sake.
WCT: Well, social networking, I think, has amazing potential, and research has shown that. But I'm a people person. I love to hug. I love to see people. I love to be around people. I love to connect to people. That's hard to do on a computer.
KC: Yeah. Painful, actually.
WCT: It's actually painful, and I think it's doing a great disservice to how we are communicating as a society. It has the potential of creating a very closed-off society. Alright, so, report card on President Obama? I personally love him. I think he's a good man, I think he's done more than any other president we've had in office thus far.
KC: Under incredible odds. I'll never forget, I was at the inauguration, and when he got up to give his speech he looked ill, and I thought, "Oh God, he just saw the books." So I think that he's done amazing things, accomplished a lot, and it has been up against the [ obstinacy ] -only Republican Party that is getting more right-wing and fascist than ever, and really has said their goal is to bring him down, which, what I learned in my civics class is seditious and unpatriotic, but whatever. So, yes, I absolutely agree that he's done enormous things.
We have friends who work in D.C. who got to their job and the department they're supposed to be working in, after eight years of Bush, is completely decimated. They accused Clinton of taking the W's off the typewriters; well, these guys just wrecked whole departments, so it was like a rebuild for a while. And I think they're on their feet now and they're very excited about what they're doing. And I think Hilary Clinton is amazing in the State Department. So, I think a lot is happening.
I feel like Cher in Moonstruck when Nicholas Cage tells her he loves her and she slaps him and says, "Snap out of it!" I feel like these people are like, "Wah, wah, wah" about Obama, and you just want to slap them and say, "Snap out of it! Oh I'm sorry everything wasn't fixed in two years."
WCT: Absolutely, I agree. You're a smart lady.
KC: Well thank you, baby.
WCT: This has been such a pleasure. I have to tell you. Thank you for being so willing with your time.
