The conference known as Souls 'a Fire 2 will feature dialogue between Black church leaders, their congregations and other community leaders as they discuss a host of social issues. The event will take place June 23-25 on the University of Chicago campus.
One of the forum participants will be Johari Jabir, an artist who is part of the plenary 'Wrapped Up, Tied Up, Tangled Up: The Politics of Aesthetic Maleness, Masculinity & Charisma in Black Religious Culture.' Jabir, who organized the conference, took a few moments to talk with Windy City Times about the event, Black churches and the concept of 'homo-negativity.'
Windy City Times: Tell me about Souls 'a Fire.
Johari Jabir: The name actually came from the first conference that we did at [ the University of California at ] Berkeley in 2003. It was on a very small scale. 2003 marked the commemoration of [ W.E.B. ] DuBois's The Souls of Black Folk [ a treatise released in 1903 ] , so we were drawn to the theme. The flame [ is connected to ] the Day of Pentecost and the gay and lesbian community.
I think it's very different to do a conference on race, sexuality, gender and Black religion. I think it's really different to do it with Black gay and lesbian people who are religious scholars, ministers, and are out versus an event where you have a panel who dedicate an hour to the discussion. What's really unique [ about the conference ] is that Black gay and lesbian people have organized it.
WCT: So how is this one different from the first one in terms of the material covered?
JJ: Wow—very different. The first panel on masculinity is one we didn't have, for example. The first conference is very broad—but here's a major difference: The first panels all consisted of Black gay and lesbian people and this time we've invited some straight Black people to participate.
The other difference is that every panel has artists, academics, and activists. For instance, Patrick Johnson of Northwestern University is an artist and academic. Each panel has that unique intersection ...
WCT: ... to provide unique perspectives on a topic.
JJ: Yeah. While I think singular conversations are productive, I think eclectic conversations are even more productive. For these events to work, we've got to talk to each other.
WCT: Have you noticed a change in the way the Black community has embraced the GLBT community?
JJ: I think that's a really complicated question because I think there's always been an embracing of [ the community ] .
WCT: Really?
JJ: Yes. I think it's much more about the terms. I think that gay and lesbian people have always been embraced, but not on the terms that everyone else has been embraced. In other words, the awareness of gays and lesbians has always been there; for example, you've heard older people say, 'Well, you know he was different.'
I was having this conversation about older Black people and HIV. I remember brothers being sick and I remember older ladies saying, 'I don't understand all that, but that's somebody's baby—and if it was my child... .' So I think that there have been these ways. However, while it's a type of embracing, I don't think it's holistic; I don't think it's healthy.
Gay and lesbian people have been artists, hairdressers, and ... I hate those stereotypes [ in terms of ] what they represent. But there's a way in which even those people are out in ways that those with privilege don't interact with. Everybody needs to be at the table on their own terms.
WCT: So you don't think that the Black community is pretty homophobic?
JJ: Here's my feeling about this: I wouldn't disagree with that but I would say that Black bodies and sexuality, in the context of a racist society, are under a kind of policing. I don't think that Black heterosexual sex is any less dangerous. One of the homophobic aspects, particularly around religion, involves this new violent Black conservative Christianity—and that's not our legacy. The conversion of West African slaves to Christianity was not about a literal reading of the Bible, because they weren't literate. This interpretation of the Bible isn't how we came to Christianity, but there's this homophobia connected to this new reading—and it's actually not just about the Bible. Now you have ministers coming out against gay marriage.
WCT: Does it surprise you that same-sex marriage has become such a hot-button topic?
JJ: No, because Black sexuality and the politics of it are kind of like [ taboo ] . Alongside gay marriage, there's also the concept of the 'down low.' We have to look at why these discourses are so popular right now.
When we talk about the particularities of Black homophobia, I'm very careful because I want to know who's watching. For example, it was a white journalist with The New York Times who [ revealed ] the whole 'down low' [ phenomenon ] . I wanted to know why, if these people were on the down low, they were talking to this white journalist. The politics of Black sexuality has an audience.
The whole thing becomes a public discourse, so then we need to ask who's entertained by it. This demonstration by Black preachers can't just be about moral values.
WCT: What exactly is 'homo-negativity?' [ The concept will be discussed at the June 25 morning plenary. ]
JJ: You have the [ standard ] homophobia that revolves around anxiety and fear. But then you have homo-negativity—which is not my word—that doesn't just encompass fear but it describes someone who is just virulently anti; the person is very invested in a negative portrayal of homosexuality. Homo-negativity involves a lot of time spent on 'homo-hatred.'
WCT: Tell me a bit about your forum.
JJ: I created that panel and I've studied Black religious masculinity. The title is taken from a gospel song. What I want to get at is a disentangling of Black religion and Black males. There is definitely so much that we presume around religion and maleness in the Black community. We are so caught up in what we think is charisma that we don't hold Black male religious figures accountable.
WCT: Well, there is that whole 'shepherd and flock' concept. Some [ parishioners ] believe that they are supposed to follow blindly.
JJ: Exactly—and it can get a bit twisted. It can be downright destructive.
WCT: It actually extends beyond religion. There are political figures who are treated the same way.
JJ: But they're shaped in a religious context. There's a way that their rhetoric is so closely aligned with religion; it's no accident that they speak in churches. They draw upon the aesthetic of preaching.
The cost of attending Souls 'a Fire 2 is $35. ( The general public is invited. ) For more info, call ( 800 ) 999-0528 or see www.clgs.org .
